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Post by Findell on Mar 3, 2024 21:15:08 GMT
Let's talk here about barbarians upgrade
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Post by chreelister on Mar 3, 2024 22:04:14 GMT
Old Formula for Terrifying Rage DC was...
Get points put in Intimidate, or Ranks, plus 3 for Skill Focus Feat, 10 for Epic Skill Focus Feat. That equals 56, very easy to obtain.
Then take your total score of Intimidate, the one you see on your character sheet, minus this from the total above. This basically includes gear (Armor - 9 (high end smith armor), Ammy - 5 (do need to be Druid or have UMD), Helm - 5 (one from BE), Boots - 3 (Finale Reward) and Weapon - 3 (Forged). This is pretty much all end game gear, but if Randoms or old items that are not in the EE mod get added, this number could be easier to get and you could get it a lot higher than it is now. Plus Epic Rep is worth 4 and then the Charisma Bonus. Take this number we will say, 32 for testing purposes, this would mean the character sheet says 88. This is about what my old toons got, altho some had Randoms and some had old items, like Sapphire rings. You get half of the differences of these points, so now you have 16 more. So total is 72.
Okay now take that 72 times 3 = 216. Then divide that by 4, that equals 54. Now add your Con mod to this. I would say on an average most Barbs have at least 22 to 24 Con and then have the Gear to max this out to 34 to 36. That is +12 to +13 Con Mod, add these together, that is 66 to 67 DC.
I am missing anything? Did I miss this up in anyway? I am not understanding something?
Well anyways you want to be +8 over their Will Save, in order to stun them or get the very best benefit from Terrifying Rage and it also goes on their level which makes it more confusing.
But anyways, can you see on why I want to change this? 1. 67 is way too high, in my opinion and 2. I think the formula needs simplified.
Mages can get 53DC now, it was 56DC in the v1.69. So I could see where a pure Barb could get 61 now, the +8 over the 53 to get the very best benefit of the Rage.
Now with the current formula you can get 44 from Total Intimidate Score and then say another 6 from Half of the Con bonus, which is 51. Probably too low.
We could do All Feats and Ranks (SF, ESF and ER), which equals 60, you get 3/4 of that for 45, every character would get this from just leveling up, then take the Total Score Difference, which would be around 27 to 30 endgame at the moment, but would go up with Randoms or better items, but not as much as the old way would, and get 1/3 of these points for +9 or +10 more, and then get Half the Con Mod for another say around 6 points. Now we are looking at around 61 points of DC instead of 67. Basically the same formula except you are getting Half your Con Mod instead of the whole thing.
Would this be okay? Thoughts, Feedback or Suggestions on this.
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Post by chreelister on Mar 3, 2024 22:23:45 GMT
Using Tils as an example
Middle Way should be getting 25 DC - too low.
New Way Feats and Ranks equal 28+10+3=41 which he gets 3/4 of that which is 30. The Difference of these 44 - 41 is 3, divide that by 3, which he gets 1 for that. Good thing he has that Helm or this would be negative, must be a negative Charisma Mod.  Now add his Half of his Con Mod and that is we will say at 22 Con, which is 6/2, equals 3. Add these together and you get 34, way higher than 25, but I am okay with it.
Old Overpowered Way is 41 + (1/2 of 3)=1 which equals 42 times 3 = 126 divide by 4 = 31, (the same number as above) plus add in your full Con Mod for 6 points and you are at 37.
So with the new way you would lose 3 whole DC in this situation compared to what I thought was overpowered but gain 9 more DC than you do now..
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Post by apecraze on Mar 4, 2024 17:50:32 GMT
Too bad I can no longer test this but remember the old 3T formula involved enemy hit dice in the formula, so you get a much higher DC vs a Goblin than an end game monster
(Intimidate ranks + ESF (10) + SF(3) + (Charisma, other feats and Item and song effect)/2 ) * 3/4 + CON bonus + difference between target HD and (BArb Levels + 1/2 Barb HD) / ( 2 for penalty 4 for bonus)
I had 100+ intimidate on my purish barb (on char sheet) but cannot recall seeing any DC above 60 in end game, maybe not even 55.
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Post by jarrod on Mar 4, 2024 19:16:02 GMT
I recall also the stun only lasted only a few rounds and then if they enter the fear aura again (barb moved a bit) the monster got a save boost that stacked each time so aura didnt work well again unless its was a much weaker monster.
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Post by apecraze on Mar 4, 2024 19:49:55 GMT
yes, DC only applied on first encounter then got decreased ( I believe in decrements of -4 DC)
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Post by chreelister on Mar 4, 2024 21:31:48 GMT
Too bad I can no longer test this but remember the old 3T formula involved enemy hit dice in the formula, so you get a much higher DC vs a Goblin than an end game monster (Intimidate ranks + ESF (10) + SF(3) + (Charisma, other feats and Item and song effect)/2 ) * 3/4 + CON bonus + difference between target HD and (BArb Levels + 1/2 Barb HD) / ( 2 for penalty 4 for bonus) I had 100+ intimidate on my purish barb (on char sheet) but cannot recall seeing any DC above 60 in end game, maybe not even 55. Yeah it still has this. I could run some tests offline and see what I was getting. But no way I want to go back to 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, etc. where almost every character was a Barb soloing Senduantra where no other class could. |
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Post by szarymis on Mar 8, 2024 13:04:25 GMT
For a short period of time there was a working inspiring widget. It changed fear aura from terryfying into +2 buff to ab/dmg. It allowed lower level barb hybrids, that did not rely on fear aura, to be more playable. It was eventually removed as it was aoe buff that messed up other barbs fear aura in party iirc. Would be nice to have something of that sort to make non fear barb builds more attractive (especially the AB was lacking).
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Post by kalmeb on Mar 15, 2024 10:22:08 GMT
Using Tils as an example
Middle Way should be getting 25 DC - too low.
New Way Feats and Ranks equal 28+10+3=41 which he gets 3/4 of that which is 30. The Difference of these 44 - 41 is 3, divide that by 3, which he gets 1 for that. Good thing he has that Helm or this would be negative, must be a negative Charisma Mod. Now add his Half of his Con Mod and that is we will say at 22 Con, which is 6/2, equals 3. Add these together and you get 34, way higher than 25, but I am okay with it.
Old Overpowered Way is 41 + (1/2 of 3)=1 which equals 42 times 3 = 126 divide by 4 = 31, (the same number as above) plus add in your full Con Mod for 6 points and you are at 37.
So with the new way you would lose 3 whole DC in this situation compared to what I thought was overpowered but gain 9 more DC than you do now..
Is "the new way" added to the server? |
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Post by Findell on Mar 15, 2024 16:23:23 GMT
Hi Kalmeb, no they are not there yet.
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jim
Arakan Scribe
Posts: 67
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Post by jim on Mar 25, 2024 11:01:25 GMT
Looks like mighty rage is still using the old formulas for at least damage, attacks per round and mind immunity, at least on a test character.
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Post by Rijnius on Apr 14, 2024 14:15:09 GMT
Looks like mighty rage is still using the old formulas for at least damage, attacks per round and mind immunity, at least on a test character. Apart from the DC, the bonus damage/EB on the weapon after rage is still a little off. I think it used to be: 1+barb levels/5 + CON mod./4 for one-handed and 2+barb levels/5 + CON mod./2 for two-handed weapons. For a level 20 barb with 12 CON mod. I'll get 5 instead of 8 (1H) and 8 instead of 12 points (2H) for barb rage. |
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jim
Arakan Scribe
Posts: 67
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Post by jim on Apr 14, 2024 21:00:19 GMT
Looks like mighty rage is still using the old formulas for at least damage, attacks per round and mind immunity, at least on a test character. Apart from the DC, the bonus damage/EB on the weapon after rage is still a little off. I think it used to be: 1+barb levels/5 + CON mod./4 for one-handed and 2+barb levels/5 + CON mod./2 for two-handed weapons. For a level 20 barb with 12 CON mod. I'll get 5 instead of 8 (1H) and 8 instead of 12 points (2H) for barb rage. Yes 5 and 8 is what you get now with the new formulas with normal rage. Try it with mighty rage and you should get 8 and 12. |
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Post by mcbutcher on Apr 15, 2024 11:25:12 GMT
I created a test barb risen
25 barb levels
22 con (+12)
Pre shift using a one hander it gets 5 positive dmg and 0EB. The pos dmg doesn't merge to shifter form
Post shift, rage adds +8 pos dmg (shape has scythe so two hander) but no EB, is that supposed to be right? Shouldn't there be +1EB as well?
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Post by mcbutcher on Apr 15, 2024 11:28:18 GMT
Never mind, its because I only have a +0 weapon
But, if you wield the weapon you have focused in then the positive damage does merge over.
Might have something to do with the code added for puissant
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