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Post by Jonales on Nov 3, 2019 22:20:59 GMT
Posted upon request! Also, I hope to help some casters in the future maybe.
Big story time! I'm a bit older in 3t years so let me tell a story and ramble. Skip to the 2nd post if you like  .
The foundations of sanct boom or bombardment run.
Okay so when I was starting and got some level 40's somewhat equipped eventually I heard
about the legends Haru Usami and Thievy Mclovin. The legends I heard
spoke only with exasperation at their efficiency in farming endgame.
*Eye roll* "Maybe Haru found the item you're looking for."
I had no idea what these legends did or how they did it until I met them -
probably one day on isle of secrets returning from farming.
So I probably went down with them with my favorite endgame toons first and
tried to see what they were doing. There is this endgame spawn area known as
breeding chambers, which I had seen with my level 40 barbarian. Apparently
they had doors on the sides of them and these doors led to other endgame
spawn areas known generally now as the pits.
Now I had only known success in breeding chambers as a barbarian with a
group before. Stonehold definitely helped there in my experience back then.
So I was able to help in bc with my barbarian, so I probably tried it
with my barbarian first. They favored an area known as "The Testing Pit"
which is the door on the left when you enter breeding chambers.
Little did I know that instead of larvaes, there were constructs, which
of course could not be stunned by barbarian rage. Not only that, but there
were casters with reflex spells that damaged my barbarian fast. After dying
a few times with my barbarian, I noticed their strategy - they seemed to
use drone to gather the enemies, curse song with sanctuary or shadowdancing
to hide, and then repeat curse song and hide until the crowd died.
I soon found that using this strategy, the best thing I could do with my
barbarian was run around not getting hit but within the radius of my allies
curse song, and wait until there were only a few that my barb could maybe
clean up.
So after talking around with a bunch of people and trying it to the same
effect with my air elemental, I made a bard like they had bards.
I and another who joined my quest to farm like them - tb415 - made bards
and joined them in farming the testing pit, succeeding with the bard sds.
Sometimes it was just me and tb, duoing with the bards in testing pit in
the early days. Make no mistake, as a bard sd, I grew comfortable with
the sight of the orb in the middle of the testing pit.
What's important to remember from that is the bard strategy is essentially
this - hide and curse song, sometimes sanctuary. Curse song the crowd of units
for damage until they fell.
Also around this time, I think I had already made a cleric shadowdancer.
Another player - by the name of Brizzer - was dedicated at one point in
time to casting until he fell with a caster cleric in many endgame areas, determined
to find somewhere where a caster cleric could farm endgame.
Eventually he tried it in testing pit as well. He tried sov and fire storm,
but found them to be highly ineffective due to constructs being immune to stun
and evasion/mantles on many units.
What he did find was that hammer of the gods to beat evasion and maybe lightning spells
worked somewhat. Also, he found that eventually he died as a caster cleric.
But I also noticed that as a bard sd, the sd hide in plain sight often served
me well, as did sanctuary scrolls. So eventually I was forced to conclude, maybe
it's all in the hide or the sanctuary. But it was Brizzer who made me think
about it all more.
So since I had a cleric shadowdancer, like Brizzer I also tried to do it
with Haru and Thievy also in the room. I found that chain lightning and
hammer of the gods contributed to the damage output, and with hide and
cleric sd I could avoid anything that came after me. Obviously, I found
that cleared mind widget for 2 sanctuaries and invisibility spells helped.
I adopted the play of clerics and casters to the strategy of the bards,
complementing the damage output of the bards with the damage of casters spells.
I damaged, and hid or used greater sanctuary when something came after me,
just like what I did with a bard.
That worked. I was often able to join a bard or 2 as my cleric sd,
using the strategy that I had worked out.
Nowadays, the bards are not in testing pits as much anymore.
Eventually, the time came to try to use a caster without a bard in testing
pit, and to see what would happen.
So one day I did. And definitely, I died. Then I died again, and again,
and again until I got some things better than the previous.
As a bard with tb and with worse equipment than I have now, sometimes we
would be forced to rest with the map not cleared. We would use our drones
to distract the enemies and keep them in the center - using hold position
command for drones - and then rest away from the group of enemies.
As a caster trying it out solo, I eventually ran into the understanding
that the times I could rest involved doing something similar.
So...I decided to try out a the same strategy I used with my bard allies -
sanctuary and hide and damage spells - but also to try to rest away from
the enemies.
This, is how bombardment run, or sanct and boom came to be. |
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Post by Jonales on Nov 3, 2019 22:22:13 GMT
Thus, the basic idea was born from the same idea bards use - sanctuary
to hide and damage spells to slay monsters. The thing is, you need
to be able to rest. If you don't in testing pit, honestly there's a
huge chance you will fall.
But, the basic idea of sanctuary and boom or bombardment run is the same
as what the bards do in testing pits - sanctuary and damage spells, but casters have
run away to rest. Like my cleric sd, casters can use this strategy to
complement bards in the testing pit.
Part 2 - Bombardment run / Sanct Boom Basic Red Box
So, I tried this with casters and made the first post of "Casters in Testing Pits".
What I was doing here, was I was just using bombardment until something came
after me in a standard way, and then using greater sanctuary to run back to rest.
Now this did kill things, and it serves any caster well as an alternative
strategy in many situations.
But after doing it with a previously useless sorcerer enough, I've
developed some tricks.
Some tricks from doing it over and over again-
So in the first post I noted that the only thing that might
happen is the map spawns on you while you rest. My advice was to try
and have a partner cover the rest to ensure that you could rest, with
you doing likewise.
Although my intention was correct, my advice was wrong. This is because
as I've tried this with partners sometimes, the map spawn changes.
Sometimes it spawns twice in a row rather than just once, and it also
spawns more at a time. Thus, the advice didn't work as intended because
the map itself changed due to the addition of another player.
But! That doesn't mean I haven't soloed a bunch with that previously
useless sorcerer in the testing pits.
How could this be if I couldn't ensure a safe rest?
Well...actually...you CAN ensure - mostly - a safe rest when you are soloing,
but only when you are soloing.
Trick #1:
The way to do that is to make the maps spawn happen slightly before you rest,
thus it won't spawn again IF YOU ARE SOLOING.
In other words, if the map has just spawned when you are soloing, 999/1000
times it will probably let you rest without a spawn on you. The map has just spawned
and there is only one player - it won't spawn again.
Preface to trick 2 -
In my previous post, I noted that hellball will significantly help
a player doing this as it will ensure you can cast at least one spell
in addition to the hellballs damage because of the knockdown effect.
After doing it a bunch, I felt like I wanted...another hellball.
How could I do this?
Ah...yes the widget of the arcane resets hellball use so you now have 2
per day.
Trick #2:
How do I fit it into my strategy?
Well...on my 2nd sanctuary I usually ran back and rested. What if I just
used hellball at it's max range, and ran back to rest not under sanctuary?
They probably wouldn't follow me since they were knocked down.
And that worked. In fact, I found that since hellball did its circling
before it struck, I could even cast another spell after hellball, and
still not be followed.
So thus -> 2 hellballs, and 2 spells at least per rest.
Trick #3 Preface.
As I did this I've often wondered what spells were best?
From my previous post - it's most likely chain lightning, delayed blast fireball,
or bombardment.
But...sometimes there are units with evasion, and saves, like the shadowcats.
Or there are units with spell resistance.
How do I damage them? Isn't there one spell that goes through both?
Oh yeah, Ice storm.
So in addition to the high damage one's I mixed in a few ice storms as well.
What I noticed eventually was that ice storm could be cast at a longer range.
One day in a safe area, I played with this range.
A MUCH longer range.
Ice storm's range in it's desrcription is "long".
So is chain lightning, and bombardment among others.
So then I got an idea, what if I just went out of range of a lot of the units
and used the long range spells?
So after the first hellball and extra damage spell, that's what I started
doing. I backed up and could sometimes get ten or so more spells off
causing massive damage to the testing pits crowd of units solo.
So trick #3 - Use long range spells from a long way away (sometimes
even off the screen) to damage the crowd of enemies.
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Post by Jonales on Nov 3, 2019 22:22:42 GMT
Part 3 - Sanct and Boom* 2.0
*As long as you are soloing.
So now, we have an upgraded Sanct and Boom.
The Sanct and boom process in the testing pits:
1.) Sanctuary and drone, then back up, use hellball and a medium or long
range damage spell. If it is medium range, use the same or a closer
target.
2.) Back up out of range of the crowd when they are knocked down.
3.) Use as many long range spells as you can get away with.
4.) 2nd Sanctuary, then go back to crowd and drone again to ensure they are
distracted while you rest.
5.) Back up to rest while the crowd gathers on the 2nd drone.
6.) Use 2nd hellball and another long or medium range damage spell to
finish off the round.
Important part: Hopefully at some point the spawn happened, ensuring
that when you rest you won't be spawned on. If it hasn't try to wait
in either the 1st or 2nd sanctuary.
7.) While they are knocked down, run back out of range so that they don't
see you when you get up, and then rest in safety.
Rinse and repeat.
Now...that worked really well. I've done that mostly with my Sorcerer,
and have soloed the testing pit to get the millions it has now from less
than 500k.
I've done that in THE pit, as well as in inferno and have soloed
with casters.
However!
Two problems!
Jonales, druids have a much shorter sanctuary than clerics and wizards.
Can druids not do this at all?
Also Jonales, what if we don't want to solo?
Anyway also Jonales, druids are so weaksauce endgame anyway  .
So!
Determined to improve the standing of druids in the eyes of the players -
although forgie farming and starting darkmoor maps help - I ventured into
the testing pits with my druid.
Part 4 - Sanct and Boom 3.0
As I did it with my druid I have personally seen the much shorter sanctuary
prove detrimental to the druid class - if it wants to ONLY be a caster,
which it doesn't have to be.
In fact, sanctuary rods seem to last 10 seconds shorter than sanctuary
SCROLLS. So, to be truly maximizing as a druid, one would have to use
many sanctuary scrolls simply for the longer sanctuary.
However!
As a mage the 2nd sanctuary was good for ensuring the rest. Not only that, but
sometimes yes, it still did spawn on you when you rested.
What could I do as a druid with such a short greater sanctuary from rods?
Well...I knew that long range spells could be used - sometimes beyond
the edges of the screen even while zoomed in.
What if I just...rested after the first sanctuary and used long range spells
after a quick buff instead of using both in one go around?
Which is... Sanct, drone, then hellball and one spell, then rest, quick
buff, and then use long range spells until I used my first sanct again.
Then I drone, use 2nd hellball and 2nd spell, and then rest.
It was nearly the same thing, just shifting the usage of greater sanctuary.
In fact, it proves a good idea on the clerics and mages since you still
have 1 sanctuary in case you are interrupted.
So! Sanct and Boom 3.0
1.) Sanctuary and drone, then back up, use hellball and a medium or long
range damage spell. If it is medium range, use the same or a closer
target.
2.) Back up out of range of the crowd when they are knocked down.
3.) Rest.
4.) Quick buff - Death immunity and True seeing for the cats in testing pits. Maybe mind immunity.
5.) Use as many long range spell out of range of the crowd as you can.
6.) When they start approaching, 1st sanctuary from rest, then drone
and LURE AWAY from the resting area, then go back to resting area.
7.) 2nd hellball and damage spell.
8.) While they are knocked down, go back to rest.
The only thing is, you might not care to make sure all of your buffs are up.
Now this worked, for druids and of course somewhat better for the mages and
clerics.
In fact, as far as I've taken this, this seems like it might be able to work
with 2 players instead of only 1, simply because they
ALWAYS HAVE A GREATER SANCTUARY SAVED for when they rest. Also, if the map has already spawned, it probably won't spawn so you can rest freely if you are soloing.
So if anything, druids can farm there - even solo - and mages
or clerics can definitely do a great degree of damage to even a
already full testing pit.
Final trick - perhaps the only safe ultimate sanct & boom with party.
So, here's a question.
Why not just rest in the pit hall? You know, the area next to the testing
pit with a free rest?
Well...if you do, the units might heal.
Why?
Because there is nobody currently in the map.
So!
What if you rested in the pit hall, but left one of the players standing
in the testing pit to prevent the units from healing?
With 2, you might even be able to alternate.
So if anything, resting in the pit hall while leaving someone in the
testing pit can be used to defeat and farm the testing pit, probably
100% if the players don't screw up a lot or the system doesn't cheat.
And so, Sanct & boom or Bombardment run has been upgraded. All casters can now farm in the testing pit solo - even druids.
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Post by jarrod on Jul 9, 2020 12:50:19 GMT
I read this post a few times and i wonder if Sanct and Boom would work with a PM AA build.
I am considering to delevel to take hellball feat to try this out. I think hellball with PM AA build could be useful anyhow as i noticed sometimes when being overwhealmed in Grubs or Inferno i dont have any good way to deal with them quickly.
PM AA is limited choices can do: 3x day imbue arrows fireballs, mords to disrupt large swarms with casters, back off and use staff to heal pets, call in drones or GS and run. Sometimes i go all in an use finger to attackl/heal if hit but its risky with large mobs.
For this sanct and boom strategy i can cast GS and II and have drones and the imbue arrow can do the long range damage spells, or even shoot bow. So i dont see what i am missing from this strategy if i take hellball and test it.
Possibly I can park 2 or 4 ii pets on one side of the map away from the rest area to act as a lure. Hellball, imbue arrow 3x fireball. Then tell pets to attack from the other side of the map. My worry is the shadow archers are on guard and may pull early. So then just have 2 which are easy to control.
I think i went a few years ago to visit the end game areas something like the testing pits or breeding chambers with Haru and saw him in action. But i cant exactly recall where these places are.
I think they are somewhere in trighton with Haru. I went recently to do grubs area to farm and thats Coj and i think it makes more sense that it would be somewher deeper in there?
I scanned Ape3t map and i dont think its up to date as the way i go to grubs is not on the map so i dont think its listed there or in trighton.
Probably need some in game help to show me how to do this.
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Post by chreelister on Jul 9, 2020 13:22:16 GMT
I think Ape's map is up to date except one place, The Lost Dungeon, the problem with the Grubs, is that is where it is. The problem with updating that map is it is constantly changing. So getting there, would be go to the Lost Dungeon, take as many ATs as you can, cross your fingers and hope you get there soon. |
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Post by donojono on Jul 9, 2020 14:26:33 GMT
You could always try using a black blade of disaster to help you with some control as a last lifeline get an elect sheet up and use shape change iron golem also make sure that you have a second set of gear just to farm grubs map, you need to make sure your DR covers the damage type there, bring lots of shadow shield scrolls because you will get insta dispelled from the clerics and they will cast a harm on you and you will die and its a long way back.
Lost dungeon is tricky alone as almost every map has strong counters for every type of build its kind of a party area.
I would suggest if you want to farm there as a caster try a Wizard or cleric both with assassin and SD, this is if you prefer defense over DC and if you pick gnome you can go conjuration and illusion and enjoy using Evards and weird in grubs.
You can also look up radios Cleric SD build which does excellent in Grubs also.
I would skip farming keys in lost dungeon as the rewards sucks there.
Monsters you need to take out asap in dungeon are the breeding nurse 62 DC on implosion, Pit Lord, beholder and diamond golem, Pit stalker is no trouble for u but watch out for crippling strike if you have low str.
Another build that does great in lost dungeon is a COT Rogue trapper make sure you take knockdown to deal with the clerics though if they corner you.
IF you just want to do grubs I recommend a bard SD,Wizard SD or Cleric SD.
Chree maybe one day gives us a bunch of quests or a way to simplify the dungeon travel, in particular access to Felicia who is much harder and longer to reach IMO.
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Post by Jonales on Jul 9, 2020 19:57:59 GMT
Hey Jarrod thanks for asking.
So I've recently done this from level 33-40 solo with the rdd fighting cleric that I posted, so it will probably be possible. At level 33 without the widget of the arcane though, it only had one hellball. So I remembered this post where I was like I want another hellball, and yeah doing it at level 33 totally confirmed that. A 2nd hellball is very useful for damage alone.
As a lvl 33 cleric, I was able to do it with umm...something like 20 caster level ice storms. It got a bit better up at level 28 cleric or so, but it made me realize that I think I want empower or maximize. It still works, but one of those feats helps with the damage, definitely when the damage from ice storm is low. So empower or maximize might help as well. Try it first with just hellball and arcane widget though.
I will say that you'd probably want the widget of the arcane for the 2nd hellball. That alone is significant in my opinion.
The other thing for the archer pale master is the archer stuff. It is imbue arrow and reflex spells work okay sometimes against some opponents, but sometimes you'd need ice storm and hellball for the ability to damage the others that aren't damaged. Ice storm only though, as your casting level won't beat sr for any other spells. Some of them have high reflex and evasion, but you'll probably be able to slay at least the regular golems that show up and probably a few more. But some of the opponents have reflex and evasion, and it's okay I've used fireballs and lightnings with my caster from time to time. Bombardment is also a reflex spell and on the druids was highly effective, so you'd be able to kill some things on a reflex thing alone.
Another idea might be that you could shoot a cleric in there, which helps because then it can't resurrect or do a healing spell. So that might be a thing you can try when you get the hang of it.
I do recall though on some of my other builds like druid elemental, that the cleric does seem to have decent AC in grub pits. That was weird, so it might not work as well as one would hope.
So what I'd suggest is try it first with hellball AND widget of the arcane. Hellball, and maybe ice storm/imbue arrow depending on the enemies that are there. That might be my process trying it with that build the way you've spoken about it.
I was thinking of doing another video to display the strategy. I've managed to do sanct boom in testing pits, inferno, eye of death, and soul vault with my casters. You probably wouldn't be able to do eye of death due to lack of horrid wilting, although you might kill some. But I think you'd be able to do testing pits, and inferno even though inferno itself is somewhat slow. The problem with soul vault was resting in the shrine outside, and as a pm you might defeat those things easily. But getting back in without a key might be hard without open lock. I think I was using open lock for soul vault. Depends.
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Post by Jonales on Jul 9, 2020 21:25:08 GMT
And here is the map for the breeding chambers and surrounding pits in case anyone wants to know. Oh and to be clear the "lost dungeon map" is not the entrance to lost dungeon, but it is a random map in the lost dungeon that changes with the lost dungeon map changes.
Attachments:
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Post by jarrod on Jul 10, 2020 0:24:33 GMT
Thanks! that is a really useful map.
I spent the the evening releving to get helball. Now i got to do final widget to get the arcane one and then all set to try this new area and strategy.
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Post by dizgrace on Jul 11, 2020 4:34:48 GMT
I love this story. Hoooooly smokes. 10 points.
(edit: to me, they seem 100% impossible, any clue how it could be done for us normal, mortals?)
(edit 2: that's not true. It's doable, but then you have to be totally anal. But besides that, I mean)
(edit 3: no, it's insufferable. Too little damage, too many guys at once, heheh)
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Post by Jonales on Jul 12, 2020 1:12:34 GMT
As with probably most spawn areas, warriors do them by grouping up and luring due to their single strike nature as opposed to casters who can strike a bunch at once. I managed to do it once with a group of warriors on my paladin fighter.
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Post by mcbutcher on Jul 12, 2020 5:27:15 GMT
What's a warrior?
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Post by Findell on Jul 17, 2020 9:42:34 GMT
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