T11s for vanilla or EE

donojono
Master of the Ten Dragons

Posts: 491

T11s for vanilla or EE Aug 17, 2020 8:49:20 GMT via mobile chreelister likes this

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Post by donojono on Aug 17, 2020 8:49:20 GMT

It is my opinion that many t11 are weak not just in relation to randoms.
T11 are really rare there is many people have never found still.
What is really annoying though is that when you find one it has a low level requirement and it’s value is also poor for cash .
An example would be t11 sneak Boots.

The fast and the silent:
Dex +3 haste hide ms spot +10
Dark x5
Uv x5

Uv should be ts to avoid dark bug .
Anyway this should have more like saves or higher dex and atleast a second primary stat it’s lvl req is 25 and value 50498

I know that desiging items is not easy but sure their is items like the gambler at lvl 37 required that is much more balanced overall.
This is not the worst t11 but something to consider looking at if we are removing the randoms also consider some classes if they have missing tiers for items .

Another example is at10 amulet of divine radiance +6 cha extra turning . This should also have +6 or +7 Nat and maybe cha reduced as we know that for paladin or blackguard they need that slot for ac.
I found one and never seen another on the server yet and still that is really terrible as it stands.

I designed 2 small shields in the past for submission for t10 and t11. I also don’t mind if this was public designed or w voting system it’s a lot of work to do to get it right so we don’t have some more insane ones like wof cloak or maybe since that is so rare also who cares just make them good .

You might be in agreement or not but once you get into farming paticular areas and difficulty it also starts to .
T11s or t10 should have primary and secondary stat or always have the ac if it is related to a sole ac slot . Like Nat for ammy

Last Edit: Aug 17, 2020 8:59:36 GMT by donojono

Jonales
Harata Defender

Posts: 799

T11s for vanilla or EE Aug 17, 2020 11:01:48 GMT

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Post by Jonales on Aug 17, 2020 11:01:48 GMT

Another thought, maybe talk about equipment tiers conceptually as well. I'd think that equipment is another way to gain improved stats for characters in addition to levels. It might be fundamental but I like fundamentals.

Do you want level 40's to have the differences in power? What are good things to have on the best items?

I remember Reo got that heavy flail and then it was nerfopolis understandably, but it was definitely a lack of standards for improvement in the t11 weapon tier. I remember Chree saying he wanted someone who found a t11 to consider making another character just for that t11. What would that look like?

Right another thing would be about the imbalance of farming methods probably? If someone wants to remake a character to use a t11, it would be because it would be an advantage in farming right? Which means that would have to exist? A "t11" area and a non t11 area?

So top to bottom t11 ideas might want to be different few ways at least.

Not gonna lie either. When I found my t11's some of them were really random and it wasn't based on difficulty at all haha.

Difficulty is a question in and of itself. Both strategy and tactics heh.

Last Edit: Aug 17, 2020 11:32:06 GMT by Jonales

Jonales
Harata Defender

Posts: 799

T11s for vanilla or EE Aug 17, 2020 11:27:50 GMT

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Post by Jonales on Aug 17, 2020 11:27:50 GMT

I would say these things about the concept of difficulty here endgame.

I would say the most straightforward and honest difficult parts in my experience are lost dungeon and mu. Lost dungeon has been difficult and I know it might be save or die or quick defeat, but I wonder if I really had a chance there or if it's just me accepting if it didn't go my way it's done. I suppose I've done some lighter farming there with my paladin before. It might be based entirely on luring though, since we often don't want to face the entire crowd.
Mu those bosses are sometimes more difficult than Mu itself and everything just stops sometimes cause it's like diamond golem boss or death stalker boss.

Trighton death vault is kind of weird when done with a group of elementals and more it could be difficult but it could also be ummm, wrong maybe. I think I recall one time we hung out by the stairs I was iron golem and it was okay for a while. Gotta hang by the stairs though. The portal upon entrance to a random place might be a bad thing if you have to sanct or something to the stairs where a group can be formed.

Sendauntra, I've only had difficulty in web when we tried to do it, and eye of death when done with melees or something.
Grubs might not be difficult, but I always feel it can be a bit intense. Also it gets tense when you are doing a melee and a bunch show up or ts goes down.

Forgies sanctum might be the most difficult in forgies, but I do have something to say about that. A lot of the times there it is going fine, and then 2 or 3 templars show up and it is like full retreat or defeat due to the templars. I think the templars in forgies sanctum are like the entire thing really maybe. From my experience at least.

Darkmoor really only temple when sanct wailing it can be a bit difficult heh, and sanctum is annoyingly difficult like in forgies due to the random spawns it has. I've always told people if you want to do darkmoor sanctum it is better to just retreat after a while to rest in interiors, because the random spawn is going to mess you up when resting most likely.
I also remember behind the gate in upper darkmoor, but I don't want to talk about it without remembering that the people from below the gate can shoot across everything to where you are, which can be annoying.

So I feel like some of these might be too overwhelming. Grubs seems not difficult but intense. Forgies sanctum and places in darkmoor can be annoyingly difficult. I like how sendauntra people at least know that they are getting into it in web when it happens.
I'm not sure about dungeon because I feel it can be based entirely upon luring or bad rests. I remember often in a group we can storm by, and then we get spawned apart by map change sometimes. Dsipel happens often there. It seems more like it could be said to accept the overwhelming nature of the game, and then as such requires teams because of it? That would be my guess as to dungeon.

So I guess I've liked grubs, sendauntra web, and Mu.

What I said above about the strategy part, now that part was also fun. I remember I did testing pit with melees before and it was a bit difficult but also we used a safer strategy which was the entire thing. But yeah we used drones as 3 melees and an archer and were still pushed back behind the ramp. That was a bit fun and difficult I guess. Breeding pit might've had a same experience.

Pit is just too over the top crazy sometimes heh.

Last Edit: Aug 17, 2020 11:31:10 GMT by Jonales

donojono
Master of the Ten Dragons

Posts: 491

T11s for vanilla or EE Aug 17, 2020 12:33:57 GMT via mobile mcbutcher likes this

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Post by donojono on Aug 17, 2020 12:33:57 GMT

You are right but I am just talking about well for an example if the top item let’s say for a paladin or blackguard and it’s an amulet slot with +6 cha and extra turning well then it should have +6 ac also or something else the same with the finale reward amulets are missing ac.

Items should be progressive an example of a good one is ring of clear thought + 7
It has intel con saves hide and ms and the + 6 version is less which is a t10. You still have a ring slot for ac or cloak for deflection also which mean this item is ok you might think it should have +3 con or higher or more saves or more sneak etc but this is my point. I left weapons out of the conversation due to the new forge .
But some good weapons atleast trying to get up to lvl 40 require are
The singers sword the gambler and true fey spear.
Eventually the end goal of a build should be.

+12 primary stat this is a given because it’s the base point without +12 intel or cha sorc wizard and assassin is pretty useless in the respect that 3t is a min max server.

The aim is +12 on primary +con and + 6 on a third and also +50 on skills like conc dis hide ms intimidate perform spot etc on a combination of epic feats and gear by getting all the top T11s maybe you could reach all that maybe even having the t11 means you could drop the epic focus and do a relevel . Whilst also maintaining haste and armor slots.
Basically gear like the toolset achieves this at a basic level as in str for belt dodge ac for boots Nat ac for ammy and it scales as high ad you pretty much need.
It’s not about the ability to farm different difficult areas and make them just easier or like a trick or a cheat so the area does not matter .

It’s disappointing that some items like greater snare kit top out at tier 8 or tier 9 I think it’s so critical for a trapper that a t10 and t11 are needed in the tool set in my opinion.
True shield and shield of immortality are a good example of a shield that is working well up the tiers
They don’t need to offer tricks like immunities to spells or other silly thinks like ethereal but they could atleast progress in a manner which I state many do already but some are gimped really bad another example is the green leaf it’s a t11 ranger shield it had no wis con dex or str or saves or ele or dr or just +6 ac which it should it’s a t11 then it has +10 x 4 skills and 4 x lvl 4 slots lacking primary secondary and saves or atleast a combo of them

Last Edit: Aug 17, 2020 12:39:33 GMT by donojono

mcbutcher
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Posts: 1,157

T11s for vanilla or EE Aug 17, 2020 13:12:22 GMT via mobile donojono likes this

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Post by mcbutcher on Aug 17, 2020 13:12:22 GMT

Jonales just hijacked your thread to go on a rant haha

I agree there are quite a few T11s that are almost useless as an end game item. Even more so now that randoms have come along. There are so many brilliant randoms

It would be nice to see some T11s improved in EE but not sure if it would be a priority.

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